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Turks vs. Russians - what is going on?!?

photo

Damn, what wildness in the world now! I awoke to news of the military incident with the Russian jet. Now, a news flash on RT that the pilots were shot dead in the air while trying to parachute. Who should we believe? Russia's version of the incident varies wildly from that of the Turks and the U.S., who claim 10 warnings were given before the jet was taken down. Now, there will undoubtedly be bans on yet another prime tourist destination for Russians. It is reported that there are already demands to evacuate tourists from Turkey and cancel the visa-free regime until Turkish officials issue an apology. Who and what should we believe? What is going on?? Nothing is clear, just like this blurry photo, where I photobombed a shot with a random Russian man in some remote town last winter. I don't even remember the name of the city, but when I look at this photo, I always smile. And we can all use some laughter and a brief moment of humor on this day.

I don't even know what to say, or how to analyze this situation, because I'm no expert in foreign or military affairs. How will Putin and NATO react? Who do you believe? Today the French flags are hanging in Washington, DC because Francois Hollande is visiting Obama. Now is a rare chance for you to express your opinions about the political and military situation in this blog. I know you are all experts! :) I will read all your comments, but don't have time to answer everyone...

Comments

( 133 comments — Leave a comment )
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e_d_w
Nov. 24th, 2015 03:20 pm (UTC)

Türkiye bu İslam Devleti. (ISIS). ?

xyeelo
Nov. 24th, 2015 06:20 pm (UTC)
ЭрДОГанусу и всем туркам хуй в сраку! Отныне и навсегда! Пизда туркам-строителям в России теперь, это первый шаг! Остальные потом
(no subject) - e_d_w - Nov. 24th, 2015 06:34 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - mjol1nir - Nov. 24th, 2015 07:24 pm (UTC) - Expand
onkel_hans
Nov. 24th, 2015 03:20 pm (UTC)
Putin's provocations should be stopped.

This has been one of the many probing penetrations into the NATO airspace.
peacetraveler22
Nov. 24th, 2015 03:22 pm (UTC)
Yes, I remember numerous reports, esp. over the summer. This morning, I was listening to some military analysts and ex-CIA agents on CNN. They said the Turks over-reacted and made a HUGE mistake by shooting this jet down. Instability will not grow much stronger. Well, it will be quite interesting to see how things develop.
(no subject) - qi_tronic - Nov. 24th, 2015 03:31 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - peacetraveler22 - Nov. 24th, 2015 03:40 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - qi_tronic - Nov. 24th, 2015 03:50 pm (UTC) - Expand
Putin would say - - onkel_hans - Nov. 24th, 2015 04:02 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: Putin would say - - peacetraveler22 - Nov. 24th, 2015 04:03 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: Putin would say - - onkel_hans - Nov. 24th, 2015 04:19 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: Putin would say - - sv0812 - Nov. 24th, 2015 05:01 pm (UTC) - Expand
Moscow Shot down a US Air Force RB-47 - onkel_hans - Nov. 24th, 2015 04:35 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - sv0812 - Nov. 24th, 2015 05:10 pm (UTC) - Expand
Shame on you. - onkel_hans - Nov. 24th, 2015 05:18 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: Shame on you. - sv0812 - Nov. 24th, 2015 06:36 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - onkel_hans - Nov. 24th, 2015 03:42 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - (Anonymous) - Dec. 3rd, 2015 01:33 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - girlspell - Nov. 24th, 2015 04:16 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - peacetraveler22 - Nov. 24th, 2015 04:18 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - girlspell - Nov. 24th, 2015 04:33 pm (UTC) - Expand
Before ordering lulnch - onkel_hans - Nov. 24th, 2015 04:50 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: Before ordering lulnch - (Anonymous) - Nov. 24th, 2015 05:50 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - e_d_w - Nov. 24th, 2015 03:23 pm (UTC) - Expand
Get the head out of your asshole, dupe. - onkel_hans - Nov. 24th, 2015 03:40 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - e_d_w - Nov. 24th, 2015 03:47 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - is_numberfive - Nov. 24th, 2015 04:32 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - peacetraveler22 - Nov. 24th, 2015 04:39 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - v_stranstviyorg - Nov. 24th, 2015 05:25 pm (UTC) - Expand
Turkey we will eat on Thursday! - onkel_hans - Nov. 24th, 2015 05:47 pm (UTC) - Expand
megawiz
Nov. 24th, 2015 03:39 pm (UTC)

Kremlin is trying to foment war because it is the only way to cancel debt

Edited at 2015-11-24 03:47 pm (UTC)
peacetraveler22
Nov. 24th, 2015 04:19 pm (UTC)
To cancel debt, or restore its power and position in the world of geopolitics?
mb_b
Nov. 24th, 2015 03:41 pm (UTC)
It must have been the same SU warplane equipped with a top-secret RF jammer that put God's fear into the sailors of USS 'Donald Cook' in the Black Sea last year. The reports in Russian social networks had it on good authority that several US servicemen quit on the spot then.
moebiuscat
Nov. 24th, 2015 05:05 pm (UTC)
Yes, the jammer apparently works only against sailors, because ground radar was able to track it, then F16 radar was able to get a lock on it, then rocket has acquired the target, locked on it and destroyed it.
(no subject) - v_stranstviyorg - Nov. 24th, 2015 05:33 pm (UTC) - Expand
maksipes
Nov. 24th, 2015 03:54 pm (UTC)
turkey is trying to help to terrorists which are hiding along turkey's border. russia is bombing them. But turkey spent a lot of efforts to grow those terrorists and don't want to lose them.
cossache
Nov. 24th, 2015 04:20 pm (UTC)
Don't worry, be happy ;) read news less.
They shot down it for destroying turkish oil trade with "Daesh". When you lose money you get mad. Russia will react, but not furious bcs of bosphorus strait.

Edited at 2015-11-24 04:22 pm (UTC)
mat_uc
Nov. 24th, 2015 04:24 pm (UTC)
Turkish have a lot of channel to ISIL.
They buy ISIL's oil and transfer a lot of weapons to ISIL.
Turkish are not interest in the end of ISIL. This is a business of turkish prime-minister.

Som next time it will be not Istambul. It will be Constantinopol, or Tsar-grad.
save_your_link
Nov. 24th, 2015 04:29 pm (UTC)
А я этого ожидала. Поговаривают даже, что когда туристов эвакуировали из Египта, была договоренность с Турцией, что их поместят туда, причем ВСЕХ, и турки обиделись, когда мы часть поместили в Иран, а часть - в Израиль. Вот и долбанули. Но вообще, дебилы, потому что мы сейчас вообще Турцию без наших туристов оставим, вот тогда у них начнется писец, потому что она жила на русских и на немцах, и на одних немцах не вытянет.
scorp_takoi
Nov. 24th, 2015 08:53 pm (UTC)
Кого в Иран поместили? Туристов???
(no subject) - morang - Nov. 25th, 2015 11:34 am (UTC) - Expand
modest_so_zvezd
Nov. 24th, 2015 04:29 pm (UTC)

Erdogan - fucking asshole!

Alex Winter
Nov. 24th, 2015 04:49 pm (UTC)
Это слишком резкий шаг со стороны Турции. На них ведь не нападали. Тут в любом случае, нарушал пилот или не нарушал, он уже погиб, и это из-за Турции.
procurator0
Nov. 24th, 2015 04:52 pm (UTC)
shannon please tell us that you are on the left in this pic
(no subject) - peacetraveler22 - Nov. 24th, 2015 04:53 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - procurator0 - Nov. 24th, 2015 05:00 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - peacetraveler22 - Nov. 24th, 2015 05:03 pm (UTC) - Expand
sv0812
Nov. 24th, 2015 04:56 pm (UTC)
Who and what should we believe?

фактам
самолет упал на территории Сирии - раз
самолет не угрожал Турции - два
было 10 предупреждений? ОК, где запись предупреждений? запись в студию

How will Putin and NATO react?

НАТО уже открестилось.
Путин прервет эконмические связи, снимет скидки на газ, приостановит переговоры по Турецкому потоку и АЭС, закроет авиасообщение, турки потеряют российских туристов

На границе с Сирией будет установлено слежение и турецкие самолеты, залетевшие на территорию Сирии даже на 5-10 минут будут сбиваться.
Не исключены переговоры с Арменией - армяне с радостью позволят сделать то же самое на их границе
qi_tronic
Nov. 24th, 2015 05:06 pm (UTC)
Константинополь и средиземноморское побережье - грекам.
Южное побережье Черного моря - армянам.
(no subject) - a000796 - Nov. 24th, 2015 06:04 pm (UTC) - Expand
moebiuscat
Nov. 24th, 2015 05:01 pm (UTC)
Russian ministry of defense consistently and blatantly lies all the time. The funniest recent thing was that because of Russian air support in recent 3 weeks syrian army "освободила более 50 крупных населенных пунктов, около 350 кв. км территории" - meaning 50 major population centers on 350 square kilometers of land. That's about 96 square miles! A single major city won't fit in there - Washington metropolitan area is a whopping 5,564 square miles. Even 50 tiny villages won't ever fit into this area. So they lie all the time and nothing they say can be believed.

On the other hand Turks are not famous for being truthful either.

The Russian military maps that are shown on ministry of defense briefing are stunningly incorrect, there has been an Israeli analysis on that recently: the whole sections of Israel and nearby territories have borders and demarcation lines at the wrong places, towns missing or incorrectly called etc.

Occam's razor principle tells us that NATO is correct: Russians probably flown into Turkish airspace, either on purpose (testing NATO air defense radars etc. - Russians do it for decades) or because of poor navigation, maps and avionics. They did it many times before - Turkey repeatedly warned Russians about that, they told then they will shut Russian planes down if it keeps happening. They did shot down Russian drone before.

Turkey has no reason to escalate and shoot down Russian plane that haven't flown into their airspace. And the fact that it actually fell into Syria makes perfect sense: any single pilot reaction when being attacked like this would be immediately turning back under maximum thrust. And Turkish air force once given command to shoot it down will do it, even if slightly over Syrian border by that time. Add to that time needed for the missile to intercept - and we're talking about tens of seconds - a lot of distance at those speeds. If it would fall within Turkey it would mean it went very deep, which would make no sense.

Update:



Here's the radar map. No wonder it fell into Syria, it clearly shows how it entered Turkey and where it was intercepted.

Edited at 2015-11-24 05:34 pm (UTC)
lion_lexx
Nov. 24th, 2015 05:03 pm (UTC)
Watch RT. They report as things develop.
peacetraveler22
Nov. 24th, 2015 05:04 pm (UTC)
I follow their feed on Facebook, but rarely believe their content. They are government-controlled media and biased.
(no subject) - saccovanzetti - Nov. 24th, 2015 05:24 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - 0xbadbeef [verisignlabs.com] - Nov. 25th, 2015 11:55 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - (Anonymous) - Dec. 3rd, 2015 01:38 pm (UTC) - Expand
grimbik
Nov. 24th, 2015 05:04 pm (UTC)
There will be an answer but it would probably be assymetrical. The tourism in Turkey will suffer for sure.
peacetraveler22
Nov. 24th, 2015 05:05 pm (UTC)
Return to the Iron Curtain. :(
(no subject) - moebiuscat - Nov. 24th, 2015 05:13 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - grimbik - Nov. 24th, 2015 05:23 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - moebiuscat - Nov. 24th, 2015 05:32 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - grimbik - Nov. 24th, 2015 05:40 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - moebiuscat - Nov. 24th, 2015 06:45 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - grimbik - Nov. 24th, 2015 06:52 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - moebiuscat - Nov. 24th, 2015 07:24 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - grimbik - Nov. 24th, 2015 08:40 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - moebiuscat - Nov. 24th, 2015 09:19 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - grimbik - Nov. 24th, 2015 09:51 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - moebiuscat - Nov. 24th, 2015 10:32 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - grimbik - Nov. 24th, 2015 10:37 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - moebiuscat - Nov. 25th, 2015 04:14 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - grimbik - Nov. 25th, 2015 06:28 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - moebiuscat - Nov. 25th, 2015 08:11 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - grimbik - Nov. 25th, 2015 09:31 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - peacetraveler22 - Nov. 25th, 2015 09:55 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - grimbik - Nov. 25th, 2015 10:19 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - 0xbadbeef [verisignlabs.com] - Nov. 25th, 2015 12:01 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - moebiuscat - Nov. 25th, 2015 03:50 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - 0xbadbeef [verisignlabs.com] - Nov. 25th, 2015 04:47 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - 0xbadbeef [verisignlabs.com] - Nov. 25th, 2015 11:58 am (UTC) - Expand
moebiuscat
Nov. 24th, 2015 05:25 pm (UTC)
One other thing you should remember: there are "Turkmen" - ethnic tuskish people living in bordering areas of Syria, they have an armed brigades that are loosely allied with kurds and fight against Asad and ISIS. And Russians have been targeting them. So naturally Turks strongly oppose Russian effort, and when provoked would drive the message home.
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