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At times, I feel totally removed from my readers and the pressing news issues on which many of them are focused. For instance, yesterday I saw dozens of posts about the demolition of the trade pavilions in Moscow. Very long and detailed discussions of the topic in Facebook posts from Russian friends, yet I can't understand anything about the situation. Some people say the vendors had legal permits for the stalls, others say no. Many don't even care. They are glad the eye sores are removed, and the legality of the action is irrelevant. If the owners had proper permits for construction, how can the government just run a bulldozer over a business that is legally operating, destroy everything, and leave a person's life and income in ruins?

I remember seeing these vendors selling fruits, bread, vegetables and cheap clothing during my stays in the suburbs of Moscow near Mytishchi, where I frequently took the train. It appeared most of these people were immigrants, whether they are legal or illegal I have no idea and typically don't care. Because illegals, even in my own country, don't pose a problem for me provided they are working and contributing to the economy and society. Yes, I would rather have a Mexican or Central American immigrant who is working hard in my community than a white loser who sits on his or her ass all day collecting a welfare check...Please explain this situation to me. Do you support the destruction of these businesses? As a lawyer, I'm most interested in the legality of the government's action. Of course, in the U.S. there is no news about this story because our media is focused on domestic issues, spending hours and hours discussing and analyzing the upcoming presidential elections, which also is a circus show, but a different kind...:) 

Comments

( 150 comments — Leave a comment )
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don_oles
Feb. 10th, 2016 12:27 pm (UTC)
right answer: it's fun!
peacetraveler22
Feb. 10th, 2016 12:29 pm (UTC)
Yes, life in Russia is never boring.
(no subject) - (Anonymous) - Feb. 13th, 2016 09:58 am (UTC) - Expand
karbunkul_lug
Feb. 10th, 2016 12:31 pm (UTC)
I do not care for Moscow.


How do you think will Klinton become president of USA? It's more intresting question as for me
peacetraveler22
Feb. 10th, 2016 12:33 pm (UTC)
It's a very strange time in U.S. politics. Now it appears she has a close competitor in Bernie Sanders. So, we will have to wait and see how the other primaries play out. I like some of Sanders policies, especially with respect to education and student loan debt. It seems I'll vote for the Democratic candidate, no matter who it is because the Republican choices are just scary, in my view. I don't agree with their social policies on immigration, abortion, religion....
(no subject) - theodorexxx - Feb. 10th, 2016 12:42 pm (UTC) - Expand
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(no subject) - chris_archer - Feb. 10th, 2016 12:54 pm (UTC) - Expand
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(no subject) - theodorexxx - Feb. 10th, 2016 01:35 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - karbunkul_lug - Feb. 10th, 2016 01:32 pm (UTC) - Expand
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dkfl
Feb. 10th, 2016 12:32 pm (UTC)
basic explanation: Moscow authorities sells a car to a buyer, gets money. Then a few years later reports the car as stolen and sends police to take the car back. Court decisions named as useless papers.

Edited at 2016-02-10 12:33 pm (UTC)
peacetraveler22
Feb. 10th, 2016 12:52 pm (UTC)
Well, we have somethings similar in the U.S. where the government can come and "take" property. I'm sure you've heard of it - eminent domain. But the owner is well compensated, and there are a lot of legal hurdles for the government to jump through to claim the property.
(no subject) - kichiro_sora - Feb. 10th, 2016 02:27 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - peacetraveler22 - Feb. 10th, 2016 02:28 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - kichiro_sora - Feb. 10th, 2016 04:07 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - bopobyc - Feb. 10th, 2016 03:33 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - dkfl - Feb. 10th, 2016 03:55 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - 10_4 - Feb. 13th, 2016 06:11 am (UTC) - Expand
aborigen72
Feb. 10th, 2016 12:34 pm (UTC)
Ломать не строить , душа не болит (
в сумасшедшем доме не только такое делают (
a_nimaida
Feb. 10th, 2016 07:10 pm (UTC)
поработайте в этих грязных, холодных, киосках зимой , где продают ЕДУ !
думаю что сами пойдете их крушить
anna_sollanna
Feb. 10th, 2016 12:42 pm (UTC)
> If the owners had proper permits for construction, how can the government just run a bulldozer over a business that is legally operating, destroy everything, and leave a person's life and income in ruins?
Because it's the Russian Government. Nobody objects him so they do what they want. They can say the permits for construction were not proper (though owners stated otherwise), or they can say that it was made by mistake and later they'll compensate this. And later they can say that constructions costed, for example, only 100 rubles per building... And return (or even promise but not return) only this amount of money. This is modern Russia - people who have power can do whatever they want not even bothering themselves to find legal explanation to their deeds...
theodorexxx
Feb. 10th, 2016 12:47 pm (UTC)
The best answer is this : They own property rights but acquired that rights illegally
peacetraveler22
Feb. 10th, 2016 12:48 pm (UTC)
This is subject to debate, because I read some posts that say some of them had legal permits for the construction and stalls.
(no subject) - ziga_zoga - Feb. 10th, 2016 03:28 pm (UTC) - Expand
Leviathan - piterburg - Feb. 10th, 2016 04:54 pm (UTC) - Expand
g_kar
Feb. 10th, 2016 12:58 pm (UTC)
>how can the government just run a bulldozer over a business that is legally operating

I actually found the answer to this question while reading Wiki article (quite disturbing one!) on Nazi Aktion T4 program.

"Lothar Kreyssig, a district judge and member of the Confessing Church, wrote to Gürtner protesting that the action was illegal since no law or formal decree from Hitler had authorised it. Gürtner replied, "If you cannot recognise the will of the Führer as a source of law, then you cannot remain a judge"

In short, in fascist states the will of the "Leader" always stands higher than the written law.
theodorexxx
Feb. 10th, 2016 01:00 pm (UTC)
Btw what did you do at Мытищи ? Is it where Macos lives ? Do you think it's convenient for every day riders if they have to maneuver between small stores and street merchants?
(I imagined an American stands on a platform waits for a train and ride it to moscow :))) )
peacetraveler22
Feb. 10th, 2016 01:17 pm (UTC)
This is where Alexander lived, and I stayed with him during all my visits to Russia. Nice, peaceful area. I prefer it very much over his other apartment, which used to be in Moscow. I don't see how the stalls impede the flow of traffic in a place like Mytishchi, which isn't so crowded with pedestrian foot traffic. I guess it's different in Moscow. I hate public transport, and try to always avoid it, but he took the metro everywhere, so I was forced to ride, or sit at home alone in the apartment. :) Last time I was there, I took cabs on the weekend because it was cheap by U.S. standards, very fast, and much more convenient and comfortable, esp. when I was dressed up, wearing heels, etc.
(no subject) - theodorexxx - Feb. 10th, 2016 01:21 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - peacetraveler22 - Feb. 10th, 2016 01:27 pm (UTC) - Expand
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perycalypsis
Feb. 10th, 2016 01:00 pm (UTC)
Generally, after the Boris Yeltsin's era was over, mass reprivatisation was started (not legit). The former owners are alive and kicking, they would apply to court to return their property if 'democracy would won'. This is why it wouldn't. This is big issue and huge pitfall.
chris_archer
Feb. 10th, 2016 01:04 pm (UTC)
According to Max Katz:
http://maxkatz.livejournal.com/474260.html

* most property rights are obtained due to corruption
* most pavilions look ugly

so they are to be demolished some day some way or another

the administration of moscow grew more and more upset as they lose in courts about this and decided just to make things "right" instead of legal
aladyin
Feb. 10th, 2016 02:14 pm (UTC)
Что там эта подстилка написала? Славит пробянина?
livejournal
Feb. 10th, 2016 01:07 pm (UTC)
I don&#39;t understand anything about the demolitions in Moscow...
User mivenh referenced to your post from I don't understand anything about the demolitions in Moscow... saying: [...] Оригинал взят у в I don't understand anything about the demolitions in Moscow... [...]
kovaliv
Feb. 10th, 2016 01:09 pm (UTC)
Signature: You will be in Moscow, try Shawarma.

peacetraveler22
Feb. 10th, 2016 01:11 pm (UTC)
:)) I ate shawarma in Palestine. Delicious!
(no subject) - kovaliv - Feb. 10th, 2016 01:13 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - peacetraveler22 - Feb. 10th, 2016 01:17 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - 10_4 - Feb. 13th, 2016 06:13 am (UTC) - Expand
d_zinchenko
Feb. 10th, 2016 01:11 pm (UTC)
These buildings would never be constructed legally, but in early nineties city management was interlaced with criminals, so former major took responsibility for building and legalisation of those mini markets and pavilions with food and other goods. Criminals are jailed, old major is off, so no reason to have these building to sully city face, they were ugly. Moreover, in the document were stated "quickly-constructed formations", but in the real life we saw buildings made of concrete and steel, but permission was given to have light constructions to be dismounted if needed. It's fair, I think.
den_dark
Feb. 10th, 2016 01:33 pm (UTC)
Lets say, as always both sides are not right.
From legal pov - we cannot speak about so large number of objects as whole. Some of them have some papers, some others, some of objects, I sure, legally was ok. But how legality can be appraised if in 90-es and after we have high level of corruption and bribes? Most of the papers was bought from government people illegally.
Because of that most of the objects was in wrong places, and make whole city very messy. Some of them was obstacle for municipal services and didn't look very well.
maksipes
Feb. 10th, 2016 01:42 pm (UTC)
it's about time.
peacetraveler22
Feb. 10th, 2016 01:44 pm (UTC)
Why did these vendors bother you so much?
(no subject) - maksipes - Feb. 10th, 2016 01:57 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - peacetraveler22 - Feb. 10th, 2016 02:03 pm (UTC) - Expand
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