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Women and logic

Delray_How-the-Physiology-of-an-Addict’s-Brain-Affects-Psychology

This week I had some explosive discussions on the topic of women and logic. It was implied by both a male and female reader that these terms are incongruous - in other words, they do not go together. Yet at the same time, there was an accusation that American women in particular are too logical and motivated, resulting in a feeling that "you're having a conversation with a man."

I want to say that such comments really make my brain explode. Logic, ambition, intelligence - these are bad female traits? And what exactly are women supposed to discuss with their spouses or boyfriends? Nothing of substance, or are we supposed to just sit and be silent? One Russian woman who recently moved to San Francisco wrote to me that "American women are too motivated and logical, and sometimes I feel like they are missing out on being a woman." I don't know what "being a woman" means in her mind, but for me there is no set definition, and dumbing myself down to attract or please men has never even crossed my mind.

As a lawyer, I'm very much trained in logic and analytical thinking. Does it mean I'm "masculine"? We can agree that all over the globe men and women face communication issues, misunderstandings, sometimes conflicting interests...but, based on my experience, Russian culture is way more tied to gender stereotypes than American. Such narrow views on femininity and masculinity are disturbing for me personally...that is all I really want to say for the moment.

Comments

( 26 comments — Leave a comment )
sun_jr
Dec. 21st, 2016 05:02 pm (UTC)
> American women are too motivated and logical
Pitty. (c) Finding Nemo
I think she never met American woman in real life before.
peacetraveler22
Dec. 21st, 2016 05:05 pm (UTC)
Both the man and woman writing these comments have lived in the USA. One in the past, and the other currently lives in San Francisco as a stay at home mom. Of course, they are entitled to their opinion, but I can't understand their idea of womanhood.

Edited at 2016-12-21 05:05 pm (UTC)
sun_jr
Dec. 21st, 2016 05:49 pm (UTC)
My point was you can meet some woman who is extremely logical and highly motivated and another one who will be very emotional lazy butt. Just say that ALL women are too motivated and logical is not exactly true.
peacetraveler22
Dec. 21st, 2016 05:51 pm (UTC)
Exactly. Each human is an individual, with different personalities and traits. This is the main point. And it is equally absurd to say that ALL men are logical. They are not, trust me. :)
sun_jr
Dec. 21st, 2016 06:04 pm (UTC)
Ahhh, you hurt my feelings so much. :)
peacetraveler22
Dec. 21st, 2016 06:05 pm (UTC)
I am sure you are an exception - highly logical, intelligent and not a sexist pig. :))
sun_jr
Dec. 21st, 2016 06:07 pm (UTC)
Thank you! :)
peacetraveler22
Dec. 21st, 2016 06:09 pm (UTC)
Btw, this new avatar is much more pleasing than your usual monster one. :)))
sun_jr
Dec. 21st, 2016 06:28 pm (UTC)
Thank you, this is very nice of you! :) That was my "troll face" and represented my not very nice mood back then. :) Your Santa avatar is really cute too. :)
onkel_hans
Dec. 21st, 2016 05:29 pm (UTC)
It's better not to communicate with the Russkies. They are Neanderthal descendants.

Better have fun with the First General Uninsurance!
peacetraveler22
Dec. 21st, 2016 05:41 pm (UTC)
I like communicating with most of them. :) They bring a different perspective to the table, sometimes enlighten me and even teach new things. However, on topics of gender issues there is almost always a disconnect.
petr_rpc
Dec. 21st, 2016 05:42 pm (UTC)
Women and logic is two different things. If logic got on the left side, woman on the right side, if logic got on the right side, women on the left side. They not meeting at all. :D
peacetraveler22
Dec. 21st, 2016 05:45 pm (UTC)
Maybe you just surround yourself with the wrong women? Often men are attracted to the crazy ones, unfortunately. :)
petr_rpc
Dec. 21st, 2016 05:55 pm (UTC)
Maybe. Many of womens what i know, saying about feelings only ("i feel it or it"). But a very little of them do someting after thinking about feels. As animals. "I do what i feel".
p.s. Sorry my bad English)
peacetraveler22
Dec. 21st, 2016 05:58 pm (UTC)
You do not have feelings? :)) It is good when a man can express and discuss emotions, from my viewpoint. This does not make him feminine. I think about everything...sometimes too much.
petr_rpc
Dec. 21st, 2016 06:06 pm (UTC)
i dont trust feelings apriori. If i feel someting, i thing good it or bad. I trying control my feeling with use my logic. In anozer way its as animals doing - "feel and do, feel and do".
morreth
Dec. 21st, 2016 06:29 pm (UTC)
I had once a discussion with my friend
http://morreth.livejournal.com/1761827.html?thread=34396195#t34396195

And have written this post after that:
http://morreth.livejournal.com/2008779.html
peacetraveler22
Dec. 21st, 2016 06:42 pm (UTC)
About the discussion with your friend, there is an interesting comment from a reader:

"Женственность - это женские качества, уравновешивающие мужские. Обходиться без агрессии, в противовес мужской готовности к агрессии. Выжидать и принимать решения медленно и не сразу, в противовес быстрым решениям мужчин. Опираться на интуицию, в противовес рациональности мужчин. Отказываться, в противовес непреклонности у мужчин. Договариваться, в противовес мужскому умению переть напролом. Жалеть, в противовес мужскому неумению или нежеланию это делать. Сочувствовать, быть эмпатичной, в противовес эмоциональной холодности и рациональности мужчин. Продолжать могу долго, но мне уже надоело, думаю, и так уже ясно. Я предполагаю, что ты можешь мне написать в ответ, что и мужчины бывают эмпатичными, а женщины агрессивными; однако это не противоречит ничему, потому что человеку свойственны и мужественные, и женственные черты, вопрос только в том, что именно в результате превалирует."

I want to say that if this is what "being a man" is about, then it is time for me to become a lesbian, because almost none of these aggressive, cold, uncompromising "masculine" features written about are appealing to me in a partner, or arousing in any way. In fact, it sounds like a nightmare relationship to live with such a person, whether it is a man or woman.

I will read your full post later, thanks a lot for the link. Based on our prior discussions, I think we are very much aligned in our frustrations surrounding narrow thinking about gender issues in general. Happy Holidays to you! :))
elena_88888
Dec. 21st, 2016 07:23 pm (UTC)
Just a joke:
A woman has it's own woman's logic. A man has none at all... :))
peacetraveler22
Dec. 21st, 2016 07:27 pm (UTC)
:)) Actually, I think there is no division in hysterics and illogical behavior between men and women. Both can be guilty offenders. I have met enough men prone to emotional outbursts in my lifetime, some very recently.
elena_88888
Dec. 21st, 2016 07:41 pm (UTC)
Absolutely agree with you :)))
But I'd like to comment also that emotional outburst is not necessarily with cry, shout etc... Sometimes one tear can be bigger outburst than cry... It depends on a person, of course...
And we shouldn't make any correlation between a person not wishing to have a self-control and any logic
Maks J-Fry
Dec. 21st, 2016 07:33 pm (UTC)
Actually there are no gender stereotypes, there are only gender differences. These things are real and you can't dodge that fact. Nature made men and women strongly differing and that is a huge thing that helps people to survive and prosper. Just imagine that the difference between how men and women think and act is greater than the difference between how these things do, for instance, cats and dogs. Women can't think, act and see things like men doing it. the opposite is also true. It is so stupid when people go against human nature stating that there are only gender stereotypes. No, man! We're different and it's brilliant! The division of labor and duties is a huge thing!
peacetraveler22
Dec. 21st, 2016 07:39 pm (UTC)
Where did I say that men and women are the same? I did not.
Maks J-Fry
Dec. 21st, 2016 07:55 pm (UTC)
You claim that the men and women think the same way and that they have the same logic and behavior. No, it's not true. These brains are completely different and the difference is strong, it's stronger than the difference between brains even completely different animals. O man, so many "differ" worlds, I hope at least one of them I used correctly.
copengirl
Dec. 21st, 2016 07:47 pm (UTC)
Unfortunately, a lot of Russian people have narrow views on various topics. Minutes ago I ended up a discussion about so called dangers of ultrasound on human cells and DNA. Saying that ultrasound cannot and does not influence DNA at all. that it is not radiation. My argument that physics doesn't work like this in this particular situation has not been accepted by the anti-doctors followers.
eltelfo
Dec. 21st, 2016 08:27 pm (UTC)
как страшно жить...
( 26 comments — Leave a comment )

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