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Gay Propaganda!?!

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Maybe some of you know the popular store "CVS" in America? It's a retail store, selling a wide-variety of items like Auchan (but much smaller). These stores are located all over the U.S., including my hometown of Manassas. Over the weekend, I stopped to get a card for a bridal shower and saw this - same sex wedding cards!! "MR. & MR." and "MRS. & MRS." Two grooms, two brides! :)) I was in shock because gay marriage isn't legalized in my home State of Virginia, and I've never seen these cards at any stores in my U.S. travels. Our neighbors in Washington, DC and Maryland have both legalized gay marriage. However, Virginia is more conservative and I don't anticipate same sex marriage being legalized here anytime soon. Recent attempts to amend the definition of "marriage" in the Constitution of Virginia have failed in the hands of voters. Most Virginians still prefer that "marriage" be defined as a union only between a man and woman. No exceptions.

These cards immediately reminded me about the Russian law passed last year, prohibiting propaganda of nontraditional sexual relations to minors. It's my understanding the term "propaganda" isn't defined in the text of the law. So, do these cards violate the Russian law? Are the messages on these wedding cards considered "propaganda?" After all, what's "propaganda" to one person, is merely a joyous celebration of love to someone else.

I did a quick Internet search to see how this law has been interpreted in Russia since inception, but couldn't find much information in English. I see only that some prosecutors in Ulianovsk investigated whether a children's book which promoted tolerance and multiculturalism should be banned from a local library because it contains information about same-sex marriages. See article here. Then, there is an absurd article discussing a politician's wish to change the depiction on Russia's 100 RUB banknote because, in his words, "you can see Apollo is naked, you can see his genitalia" and this is pornographic. I don't know how this equates to gay propaganda, but I'm sure there are many clever lawyers in Russia who can make an argument in favor of the ban. Read the article here.
Where is the logic in this? By simply seeing an image of Apollo's genitalia, young boys will have gay thoughts of sucking off their friends? What about art, where many sculptures depict the male and female forms in intricate detail, including bare breasts, nipples, etc. These statutes also should be banned because they may illicit naughty thoughts about the same sex? It's difficult to determine where to draw the line.

note

In America, we also have many lazy legislators who enact poorly written laws. There's a legal concept here known as "void for vagueness", where lawyers attempt to invalidate a law on the ground it is so vague that an average person of normal intelligence cannot understand it, and therefore cannot be aware of the criminal consequences of their conduct. Here's a classic American example:

- The Florida Supreme Court ruled the State's felony ban on sodomy was unconstitutional and void for vagueness because an average person of common intelligence could not reasonably know, without speculating, whether "abominable and detestable crimes against nature" included oral and anal sex. :))

So now you understand why there are so many lawyers in the world. We're needed to interpret all these poorly written laws and protect citizens and businesses from undue persecution. :)

What do you think? Would a store be prosecuted under Russia's gay propaganda law for selling these wedding cards? If you know examples of how this law has been enforced, please send me links.  I'm curious to read about the violations, and put my legal mind to work.

Comments

( 144 comments — Leave a comment )
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a_nimaida
Jul. 28th, 2014 03:43 pm (UTC)
Btw, is anal sex illegal in Russia? >>>>>


he he he )

we have a deputy Mizulina that highlights various proposals Duma)
it amuses the population of Russia
peacetraveler22
Jul. 28th, 2014 03:46 pm (UTC)
You support gay marriage, or no?
(no subject) - a_nimaida - Jul. 28th, 2014 03:50 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - peacetraveler22 - Jul. 28th, 2014 03:53 pm (UTC) - Expand
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(no subject) - a_nimaida - Jul. 28th, 2014 04:34 pm (UTC) - Expand
a_nimaida
Jul. 28th, 2014 03:48 pm (UTC)
law that prohibits homosexual relationships among adolescents
but for adults no such law

when the law was passed, it was strange to watch the aggressive reaction of Europe and the U.S.
the west homosexual relationships among adolescents norm?
peacetraveler22
Jul. 28th, 2014 03:52 pm (UTC)
The Russian law doesn't prohibit homosexual relationships between adolescents. The purpose is to prevent children from being exposed to information relating to same-sex relations. I just don't understand what Russian legislators consider "propaganda."?? Of course, gay relationships between adolescents isn't the norm in America. :)) Less than 4% of the entire American population identifies as gay. It's not the norm, no matter the age.
(no subject) - a_nimaida - Jul. 28th, 2014 04:08 pm (UTC) - Expand
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e_g_o_r_i_u_s
Jul. 28th, 2014 03:53 pm (UTC)
Same-sex cards – nice. Gay marriage may be not legalized, but who prohibits to sell the cards? :)

As for violating law by these cards in Russia, it depends on opinion of police or a prosecutor whether you violate law or not, you can’t be sure. I suspect they will say that yes, this is propaganda as they usually say it about any information re same-sex relationship. But I also think hardly any shop will try to sell them in Russia – first because there’s obviously no demand, but second, again, in view of possible problems with corrupted prosecutors who only need a vague pretext.

As for the initiative about changing the picture with Apollo… our legislators are mostly unprincipled idlers, but some of them are aggressive idiots, which is worse. Just one of some mad ideas generated by them recently.

Anal sex is fortunately legal in Russia, yes. And same-sex is legal, since… 1993, probably.
a_nimaida
Jul. 28th, 2014 04:40 pm (UTC)
exactly !

they lace panties banned!))))
(no subject) - peacetraveler22 - Jul. 28th, 2014 04:42 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - a_nimaida - Jul. 28th, 2014 04:47 pm (UTC) - Expand
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(no subject) - a_nimaida - Jul. 28th, 2014 05:41 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - peacetraveler22 - Jul. 28th, 2014 04:46 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - e_g_o_r_i_u_s - Jul. 28th, 2014 07:37 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - peacetraveler22 - Jul. 28th, 2014 09:09 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - e_g_o_r_i_u_s - Jul. 28th, 2014 09:55 pm (UTC) - Expand
Some more high-ranking insanity - e_g_o_r_i_u_s - Jul. 29th, 2014 07:31 am (UTC) - Expand
Re: Some more high-ranking insanity - peacetraveler22 - Jul. 29th, 2014 03:08 pm (UTC) - Expand
andrey_kaminsky
Jul. 28th, 2014 03:57 pm (UTC)
Коварство и любовь
I think it was stupid to prohibit the marriage for sexual minorities. Marriage should be allowed, but sex in marriage should be banned. It would be a real deceit and humiliation, an act worthy of the great dictator!
peacetraveler22
Jul. 28th, 2014 04:07 pm (UTC)
Re: Коварство и любовь
There should be no "morality police" in any nation. We have many archaic sex laws still on the books in America, but they are never enforced.

-Arizona: you may not have more than two dildos in the same house. HORROR! :))

- Alaska: moose are banned from having sex on city streets.

-Indiana: it's illegal for a man to be sexually aroused in public

-Washington, DC: engaging in any sexual position other than missionary is illegal

What do you think? We live under a dictatorship here? :)))
Re: Коварство и любовь - inamora - Jul. 31st, 2014 06:23 am (UTC) - Expand
Re: Коварство и любовь - inamora - Jul. 31st, 2014 06:41 am (UTC) - Expand
onkel_hans
Jul. 28th, 2014 04:06 pm (UTC)
What as Auchan?

Marriage is a contract with state for formal protection of family. Family is a couple bunch of humans living and keeping together.

I recall a tv series Desperate Housewives - there are several lines of gay relations, (too many to my taste)

The Russian attitude to gay relations is explained with their history of being a land of convicts. One third of the population were kept in hard labor camps, one third was guarding them, the rest were awaiting their fate with horror. And it was like that for almost a hundred years.

You know that rape is not a sexual act. Rape is an act of domination and humiliation.
The same was with gay relations. It was not about sex. The convicts in prisons and camps were genderly separated. More than that, they were socially separated in humans (hard core criminals) and scmuck. Women were considered just animals.

To assume a position, one, even a schmuck, could degrade another human being - so the act of homosexual relation was actually an act of degradation. Those degraded became pariahs, really untouchable. This is why all the camp system inmates were horrified with this kind of degradation.

As the morals of the camp system expanded to the whole society, inmates were occasionally released, the humans lived at large and ruled, all living souls had this horror of degradation and becoming the pariahs.

(You know I like pulling the legs, particularly of nice girls, but this is almost exactly what still is stuck in the minds of Russia)

Edited at 2014-07-28 04:10 pm (UTC)
peacetraveler22
Jul. 28th, 2014 04:49 pm (UTC)
Auchan is the Russian version of Walmart. :) A store selling groceries, clothes, retail items, etc. I visited various locations during my Russian stays. Well, as always, you paint a very dark and barbaric picture of Russians. But, the outline of your argument is quite logical. I think you would make a good lawyer. You should consider a career change. :)
(no subject) - onkel_hans - Jul. 28th, 2014 07:21 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - peacetraveler22 - Jul. 28th, 2014 08:40 pm (UTC) - Expand
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peacetraveler22
Jul. 28th, 2014 04:52 pm (UTC)
I know the law was intended to protect minors, but in reality it impacts everyone. Yes, my research did not disclose any widely known instances of prosecution under this law. I don't really know how the legal system in Russia works. I keep looking at the course offerings at my local university for a class in Russian law, but haven't found one yet. I would take it if offered.
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(no subject) - peacetraveler22 - Jul. 28th, 2014 06:28 pm (UTC) - Expand
What Is Law? - onkel_hans - Jul. 28th, 2014 07:38 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: What Is Law? - peacetraveler22 - Jul. 28th, 2014 08:55 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - mujlan01 - Aug. 2nd, 2014 06:12 am (UTC) - Expand
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evg115
Jul. 28th, 2014 04:22 pm (UTC)
Yes, it is.
I believe this can be considered propaganda simply because children can see it. Obviously, this will entail interest and questions like "what does is mean?", "is it ok to have such a relationship?" and so on.

Edited at 2014-07-28 04:22 pm (UTC)
peacetraveler22
Jul. 28th, 2014 04:27 pm (UTC)
Re: Yes, it is.
I think children should be exposed to a wide-variety of ideas, lifestyles and cultures. It's the only way to make informed choices as they progress into adulthood and determine the proper course for their lives. If you are exposed to only one way of thinking or living, it is not an informed choice. Your choices are made simply out of habit or tradition. Thanks for your legal interpretation about the cards. :) Always curious to see how others think.
Re: Yes, it is. - evg115 - Jul. 28th, 2014 04:40 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: Yes, it is. - peacetraveler22 - Jul. 28th, 2014 05:07 pm (UTC) - Expand
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peacetraveler22
Jul. 28th, 2014 04:55 pm (UTC)
Politicians in every nation sometimes advocate for the most ludicrous positions. :) I don't think children in American schools are told that same-sex relationships are "normal." The position here is to promote tolerance to different lifestyles and cultures. Just because you tolerate something, doesn't mean you condone the behavior. I don't even know if same-sex relationships are discussed in American schools. My nephew is only in kindergarten, and there's been no discussion this topic yet to my knowledge. Maybe one of my readers living in America with kids can clarify.
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(no subject) - peacetraveler22 - Jul. 28th, 2014 05:20 pm (UTC) - Expand
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nonneg
Jul. 28th, 2014 04:35 pm (UTC)
6.21. Propaganda of non-traditional sexual relationships among minors
(introduced by Federal Law No. 135-FZ dated 29 June 2013)

1. Propaganda of non-traditional sexual relationships among minors, expressed in the dissemination of information aimed at forming non-traditional sexual attitudes among minors, attractiveness of non-traditional sexual relationships, distorted image of social equality of traditional and non-traditional sexual relationships, or the forced imposition of information of non-traditional sexual relationships, which can attract interest to such relationships, if these actions do not make up a criminal offence,
- shall entail the imposition of an administrative fine in the amount of 4,000 to 5,000 rubles for citizens; in the amount of 40,000 to 50,000 rubles for officials; and in the amount of 800,000 to 1,000,000 rubles for legal entities, which can in the latter case be replaced by suspension of activity for up to 90 days.
peacetraveler22
Jul. 28th, 2014 04:57 pm (UTC)
The language of this law is horrible and vague! So, what's your opinion based on the wording in the law? Should the cards be considered "propaganda"? The aim of the cards is congratulatory, not instructive or informational.
(no subject) - nonneg - Jul. 28th, 2014 06:32 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - peacetraveler22 - Jul. 28th, 2014 06:33 pm (UTC) - Expand
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peacetraveler22
Jul. 28th, 2014 04:58 pm (UTC)
Can you imagine! In redneck central, you can buy gay marriage cards!! Further proof of the moral decay in the West! :))
(no subject) - onkel_hans - Jul. 28th, 2014 08:00 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - peacetraveler22 - Jul. 28th, 2014 08:02 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - onkel_hans - Jul. 28th, 2014 08:32 pm (UTC) - Expand
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wojzeh
Jul. 28th, 2014 05:09 pm (UTC)
there is much room to go farther: threesome like two grooms+one bride, two brides+one groom, etc, etc.
peacetraveler22
Jul. 28th, 2014 05:15 pm (UTC)
I guess these situations would be considered "polyamorous" relationships. Illegal in all States as far as I know. Gay marriage is now legal in only 19 States. What about Canada? Is it legal there?
(no subject) - wojzeh - Jul. 28th, 2014 05:56 pm (UTC) - Expand
sineglazzka2301
Jul. 28th, 2014 06:23 pm (UTC)
As for the cards, I suppose that the probability of their appearance here is very low, first of all because stores just wouldn't risk getting into trouble for such little profit. There really are not so big demand for things like this here:)))
And regarding Russian laws, there is a widely cited phrase: "The strictness of Russian laws is compensated with optionality of their obeyance". Especially this concerns laws that have nothing to do with taxes, weapon or big penalties. For example, it is forbidden by law to drink beer in the street. There is even some penalty specified. And what of it? An amorous Alaskan moose has more chances to be charged than a Russian teenager drinking beer in front of a police office.
peacetraveler22
Jul. 28th, 2014 08:59 pm (UTC)
"An amorous Alaskan moose has more chances to be charged than a Russian teenager drinking beer in front of a police office." :))!! I can't say there is a demand for these cards in America either, but I'm happy to see them. I support gay rights and marriage 100%. Not special rights for gays, but equal protection under the law. It's very sad to me that someone can be in a committed, loving relationship w/someone of the same sex their whole life and not receive spousal benefits (e.g. insurance, tax breaks, or payout of life insurance policies after death).
pin_gwin
Jul. 28th, 2014 06:27 pm (UTC)
I will check MN stores for the cards.... I am really impressed by well balanced design.
Also, I would mention, that American art is criminalizing nudity due to strong puritanistic and other religious influence. Things that ancient considered as holy, Christians defined as immoral and evil. So, Apollo's penis would not survive on a dollar bill, while the masonic symbols are there to stay.
peacetraveler22
Jul. 28th, 2014 09:01 pm (UTC)
Please let me know if you see them in MN! I can't imagine you will find them there. I picture this area to be very conservative, but I could be wrong. I've never visited the State.
(no subject) - pin_gwin - Jul. 28th, 2014 09:29 pm (UTC) - Expand
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qi_tronic
Jul. 28th, 2014 06:45 pm (UTC)
I don;t know what exactly is written is that law but I heard that propaganda is defined like statements that same-sex relations are normal and equal to heterosexual relations.

So in spirit of this i think that the store would be prosecuted because these cards link something good (marriage) to something not normal.

The spirit of this law is very simple: not prosecute gays but define what is normal.

I personally support the "white list" approach.
Not saying what you _cannot_ do (black list) but prescribe what you should do, obligatory points.
Like marriage, having children.
So if you have a normal family you can be gay in your free time :)
Not a Christian approach but more like a computer science procedural approach :))
andrey_kaminsky
Jul. 28th, 2014 06:54 pm (UTC)
Пусть голубые размножаются
It makes no sense to justify a law that didn't bring anything good to us, had no effect on our society. This law only brought shame on us. This law is useless crap
(no subject) - peacetraveler22 - Jul. 28th, 2014 08:47 pm (UTC) - Expand
Пьер Безухоff
Jul. 28th, 2014 08:26 pm (UTC)
"Work" Ukrainian army on peaceful population of the city Lugansk.
18+
peacetraveler22
Jul. 28th, 2014 08:43 pm (UTC)
Re: "Work" Ukrainian army on peaceful population of the city Lugansk.
YouTube removed the video, so I assume it was something horrible. If it was the video showing dead bodies on the sidewalks of Lugansk, I've seen it and don't want such content here in my blog. Dead, innocent civilians should never be exploited for the sake of political discussion.
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